gif2.gif (1655 bytes)

The (seldom read) Forum Rules:
(updated March 22, 2006 - rule #3 a bit more added on divisive topics)

Welcome 

If you have a concern or an issue with any of these rules, bdsig12.gif (239 bytes) (as opposed to trying to ignore these rules). The objective here is quite simple, and with your help the bobdunsire.com forums will be a vibrant, educational, entertaining, healthy, safe and supportive forum community.

0 To keep the discussion in all the bobdunsire.com forums at a courteous and reasonable level, please follow these rules. If you don't agree with these rules, please don't post messages. Failure to adhere to these rules may result in temporary or permanent suspension of your ability to post.

1 Please do not post advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, SPAM, virus warnings or marketing type solicitations. If you are a representative of a company with a product or offering a service being discussed in the forums, or if you're a retail vendor selling the product, please feel free to participate in the discussion, as long as your participation is to respond to question(s) about the product(s) or service(s) in the bobdunsire.com forums.

Please do not use the bobdunsire.com Forums to announce or publicise  your 'new' Forum, or your version of these Forums, or your Forum for the same discussions as we have here. 

2 Malicious rumours, scurrilous posts, or insulting gossip about products, organizations, or people will not be permitted. The bobdunsire.com forums are for  reasonable and responsible discussions of the Highland Arts (for lack of a better word) of Piping, Drumming, Dance, and other related topics.

3 Posts that are inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, rude, mean, nasty, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violate any law are not permitted. Please do not start or steer any discussion into the 'arena' of religion, politics, sexual orientation, or any subject you know will create divisive 'discussion'.

4 Please be civil and courteous. See number 3.

5 Posting of, or sharing material to which you do not own the copyright is not permitted. Neil Dickie posted an excellent explanation of his (and our) views  (which has been appended to the bottom of these rules, as a further expansion / explanation of this rule)

Posting of, or sharing  web addresses (URLs) for sites where illegal copies of software (also known as Warez - a term used by software "pirates" to describe software that has been stripped of its copy-protection and made available on the Internet for downloading) may be found or downloaded is not permitted.

Sadly nearly all software can be fairly easily found for download on the 'Net. This availability of 'free' software does not make it legal, or right. Some warez thieves even ask for 'donations' or set amazingly low prices for 'their' software - a $10 donation (as an example), does not make warez legal or right either.

Commonly used commercial software for bagpipe music notation includes:
Bagpipe Music Writer Gold, Electric Pipes, Piobmaster, Pipewriter.
This software can be purchased from the developers, or from authorised software vendors. Shareware of Freeware copies of these programs do not exist; if you think you've found a 'free' or 'nearly free' version of one of these programs - you've found warez.

Search the Music Forum, or the Music Forum Archive, to check.

6 Please pay attention to the guidelines for each Forum, and try to make sure that your new message subject / topic fits the description  for the forum you're using.  This may be a challenge,  there may be overlap, but please give it thought and make your best effort.  We simply ask for you support in posting to what you believe to be the best forum for the subject. (In other words - not everything should start in the Beer Tent, or Your Announcements - kidding..... sort of)

7 You don't need to quote the entire message when you're responding (please). There are a wide variety of ways to quote (from a simple cut and paste, to UBB - Reply with Quotes,  UBB Quote Block, and more...) - but please try to only quote / copy the pertinent passage(s).

8 Please only include photos and images in threads when the subjects (image and thread) are related. When including an image in a thread, please consider bandwidth - many viewers do not have high speed connections, and the display of large image files can really create problems for them ( Links to images are an alternative).

9 Don't use all CAPS in postings, or in the SUBJECT line. (PLEASE!! it is shouting and considered 'not nice')

10 Please don't play 'thread bumping games'  (Posting a reply simply to get the thread moved to the top of a Forum) Your thread may simply disappear if you violate this rule.

11 Do not post questions or comments relating to the appropriateness of another member's post. Do not post questions or comments about the moderating of the bobdunsire.com forums. Please report forum activity that you believe contradicts these rules, or questions about the moderating of the forums, to the Forum Moderator, or to   bdsig12.gif (239 bytes)

(use your browsers BACK button or click here to return to the forums)


An expansion of Rule 5:
below is the text of Neil Dickie's
January 15, 2002 post on the subject of "Asking for music":

Here's a bit of this topic's dialogue...
Q - why don't you enter it into the BMW program???....
A - because it takes a long time and is a pain in the @**

Ken explained the Forum rules on this. Pretty clear I think.

But further, please consider this. Bagpipe Music Writer (and Finale, Sibelius, ABC etc) are described as music writing software, not music copying software or music plagiarizing software. I think we should use the software as intended.

I use BMW Gold to write music and to arrange music for my band's use.

Before BMW I used to write music out by hand. It took a long time and was a pain in the ass too. I don't think I ever asked anyone to write it out for me, though.

So here's some common sense guidelines about the distribution and transcription of music...

In general: Use BMW and the like to WRITE music. Please don't use it to re-publish anything. We are all well aware of the boundaries here, so let's grow up and use the tools we have at our disposal properly.

Published Music: There is no excuse for laziness and cheating. There are directories everywhere. Find them and find out where the music is published then order the book. You can get any in print book in 2 or 3 days now.

There isn't a piper alive who can request the BMW manuscript for "Itchy Fingers" and still claim to believe that it is public domain material. It's in Marking Time. I think you would owe Mr Mathieson the courtesy of buying his book.

New stuff and/or Unpublished Music: Take the extra step for unpublished music too. Unpublished usually includes new compositions and arrangements of other material (mostly trad). If you want the music for Blue Cloud, find out who the composer is, track him down through this forum or some other tool and ask if you can get a copy. I can do this. So it must be fairly easy to do! I do it this way all the time. Terry Lee does it this way. Bob Worrall, Jack Lee, Michael Grey, and hundreds of others all do this. We honour the value in a piece of musical art and do our very best to use the music in a proper fashion.

Most composers are actually quite flattered to be asked for music. If they won't give it to you, then accept it. I guess some composers don't want their tunes played, odd as that may seem. Sometimes refusal is because we have written a piece specifically for one performer or band to use and we may not give out music in that case.

Remember this - it might seem pissy, but the truth is that the Clumsy Lover belongs to me. Dunrovin Farm belongs to Michael Grey. Hellbound Train belongs to Mark Saul. etc etc. Unless you write it, no music "belongs" to you. You are implicitly afforded the right to learn it when you receive the music by permission of the composer. Publication is this permission. You have no right whatsoever to adjust, copy, rewrite, record, transmit or perform for monies that music without the rightsholder's permission.

In piping we allow some exceptions to exist. You can perform these tunes in competition without paying the rightsholder. You can also distribute the music within your band for no charge also. (Other musicians look at us in horror when they learn of this practice!)

You really should seek permission to record the tune or perform it in concert. Sometimes the composers waive the fees, sometimes they ask for rights to be honoured. Sometimes they ask for a t-shirt and a copy of the CD.

In conclusion, 3 options exist. Buy the book, get a copy from the composer/arranger or listen to the music and transcribe it for yourself (but you can't give it to anyone after that).

Quite frankly when I see someone say that it takes too long and is a pain in the ass I am appalled that such an attitude exists within any artistic community, especially one in which I am a member. Perhaps, sir, you believe that blowing in your new reed takes to long and is a pain in the ass. I would suggest you make a more sincere and honest effort to do honour to your craft. Be less lazy, and work for your successes; the reward derived from honest effort is infinitely more satisfying than the acquisition of anything through sloth.

I hope I never see another person soliciting music on this or other forums. (It's okay to say "where can I find tune xxx") I hope to see people making a real effort to find music through the proper channels. And I hope that a vigourous dedication to do it the "right way" will result in a healthier and more honourabe community of musicianship.

Well, one can always hope I suppose.

Neil D >>

bdsig12.gif (239 bytes) | bobdunsire.com | Return to the Forums

I am curious - anyone reading this page (since Dec 1, 2001):

FastCounter by bCentral